The Provenance of Florian Müller – Part 2

Florian Müller Profile on Blogger
Florian Müller Profile on Blogger

Interesting morning. It appears that I’ve struck a nerve. My article The Provenance of Florian Müller has upset Florian Müller.

Florian Müller Responds On Indenti.Ca

Here’s the text of the conversation, in order. Remember, we were both typing like mad, so some of his and my responses may appear out of order.

fosspatents @themadhatter I posted something below your ‘provenance’ article. You didn’t even find my Wikipedia page or public LinkedIn profile. #lmgtfy

fosspatents @schestowitz It seems that @themadhatter primarily needs better access to search engines like Google, not more followers.

fosspatents @themadhatter My name appears in the credits of some of the world’s most popular computer games and you say I have no provenance. #ohmygod

fosspatents @themadhatter Once you’ve figured out ‘the Google’ on ‘the Internets’, you may find I won an EU award two yrs before Arnold Schwarzenegger.

fosspatents @themadhatter If you’re ready to recognize your provenance post was the opposite of the truth, we can always have reasonable discussions.

themadhatter @fosspatents Yes, I see. With of course no verifiable details. I’ve responded in the same place. For anyone interested:

fosspatents @themadhatter I can’t find a reply to my comment there. “no verifiable details”? plenty of material since mid 1980s. Follow Wikipedia links.

fosspatents @themadhatter cc: @glynmoody It’s not upsetting, it’s about an absolute minimum standard of reasonableness and logicality.

fosspatents @themadhatter cc: @glynmoody Lots of verifiable detail about me in these links:

fosspatents @themadhatter cc: @glynmoody By way of contrast, the avatar named “PJ” has never appeared publicly or disclosed *any* professional activity.

themadhatter @fosspatents Flush your cache. As to Wikipedia, it’s not a trustworthy source. Nor is LinkedIn. Users do lie.

fosspatents @themadhatter You do quote Wikipedia in your provenance piece. Anyway, the documents are independent proof, such as Mobygames (credits db).

fosspatents @themadhatter cont’d: plus multiple articles on independent sites. You can’t seriously claim that’s not enough. What more would you demand?

fosspatents @themadhatter @cont’d: And do you think I could afford to lie in front of almost 400 LinkedIn contacts, many of them former colleagues?

themadhatter @fosspatents But I don’t rely on Wikipedia. An intelligent person like you should understand the difference between quoting and relying.

fosspatents @themadhatter If you don’t rely on Wikipedia, you can nevertheless follow the links to external, verifiable documents. More than PJ can show

themadhatter @fosspatents Since I can’t find you on LinkedIn, and you didn’t provide a link, no, I haven’t read your profile.

fosspatents @themadhatter I have LinkedIn contacts who worked with me at each of the companies mentioned in profile. No way I could get away with lies.

themadhatter @fosspatents Most of which articles only repeat what you are saying. Hardly solid evidence.

fosspatents @themadhatter LinkedIn, public profile: was easily googleable

fosspatents @themadhatter LOOOL the fact they repeat what I say isn’t evidence? Would contradiction by evidence? And how does PJ have more evidence?

themadhatter @fosspatents Thanks for the link. I’ll read it, and do an update.

fosspatents @themadhatter Thanks. Imagine the risk of falsely claiming relationships with companies that had numerous employees at the relevant time.

themadhatter @fosspatents PJ has loads more evidence. Yes, I checked her out, back in 2003, before O’Gara scared her.

fosspatents @themadhatter What evidence about PJ besides a mere online presence exists? Not even one employer/client/business partner was ever known.

themadhatter @fosspatents To you maybe. I have friends in low places. Of course PJ scrubbed as much as she could after O’Gara scared her.

themadhatter @fosspatents You are either very gullible, or overly trusting. If I wanted to fake a profile, I’d fake the company and the staff too.

fosspatents @themadhatter If you believe you have better access to information, I’m happy to let you believe so, but that doesn’t make it public info.

fosspatents @themadhatter Real Madrid, the world’

fosspatents @themadhatter Faking entities like Real Madrid, world

themadhatter @fosspatents Some information I do have better access too. It all comes down to people.

fosspatents @themadhatter cont’d: Markt&Technik, later subsidiary of Viacom Simon&Schuster, now of Pearson Education? all of that can just be faked?

fosspatents @themadhatter Again, I’m happy to let you believe the craziest things you want to believe. But my argument was about public information.

themadhatter @fosspatents Things can be faked. Remember Bernie Maddoff.

fosspatents @themadhatter OK, I realize you have serious problems and I’m sorry for you but you’re so unreasonable it’s absolutely useless to talk.

silner @fosspatents @themadhatter I’d say you’re arguing the difference between “supporting” and “verifiable” evidence. None of that is verifiable

silner @fosspatents @themadhatter Actually an interesting thread to read by the way 🙂

fosspatents @schestowitz I encourage you to read @themadhatter’s view of what can be faked and to think about whether he enhances TechRights’ reputation

themadhatter @fosspatents #Techrights has proven itself over the years. @schestowitz has done a good job.

I think I can summarize the entire conversation by stating that Florian was bound and determined he was going to make me admit that he has a provenance, and I wasn’t going to do so, until I’d done my research. Now that I’ve done it, I’m going to lay this out one point at a time:

Florian spells his own name wrong. Seriously. There are conflicts between English and Deutsch over the alphabet. His name in Deutsch is Müller. I did all of my searching using the Deustch spelling of his name. I didn’t search under the English spelling because he isn’t an Anglo. So from one point of view his complaint that I should have been able to find him is correct, from another, it isn’t. I didn’t search under Mueller, the Anglicized version, just like I wouldn’t search for myself using either of the Anglicized versions of my last name.

Florian Müller/Mueller still has no provenance. Sure, there’s a huge bunch of information on LinkedIn and Wikipedia. This proves that someone known as Florian Müller or Florian Mueller does exist.

But… Florian may be smart, but he’s not that bright as we would say in English. And possibly it is a language issue. His native tongue is Deutsch, and some of my English colloquialisms may have confused him. I was never questioning his corporeal existence. What I was questioning was his competence to write about the subject. In other words, does he have the technical and/or legal background to write authoritatively on copyright law and/or software?

And the answer is no. Florian Müller doesn’t have the background to write authoritatively on the subject. So he has no provenance. There’s no proof that anything that Florian Müller says about Copyright, or about Patents, is being said by someone who has an actual knowledge of the subject.

But what about PJ? Yes, I actually did do some research on PJ back in 2003, and I’m 100 percent convinced that PJ is exactly who she says she is, even though I’ve never meet her, or talked to her on the phone.

However if you were to try and do the same research now, you probably wouldn’t find her. Maureen O’Gara scared PJ, and she has since sanitized her online trail. And that was probably the right thing for her to do. It doesn’t bother me if I get recognized at the mall (and yes, it’s happened). That’s why my picture is everywhere. PJ can’t handle that sort of stuff, and as far as I’m concerned she shouldn’t have to handle it if she doesn’t want to.


As I said – Florian Müller has no provenance. Not when writing about copyright. Not when writing about software.

Now if he was writing about software marketing, then he’d have provenance.

Maybe he should consider doing that.


Wayne Borean

Friday January 28, 2011


4 thoughts on “The Provenance of Florian Müller – Part 2

  1. I want to make it clear that the transcription I use for the “Umlaut” in my name in English-speaking environments is exactly the one required by US authorities when I fill out customs and immigration/visa-related documents.

    1. That’s fine. But you can see why I wouldn’t have found you. Outside of travel documents, I would have assumed that you’d use the proper spelling of your name.

      Wayne aka The Mad Hatter’

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